THE MORNING HEADLINES

[bobbldr]

There has been a movement afoot in my little state to change the state's name. We are smallest state in the Union and have the longest official name- "State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations" There is a movement afoot here, mostly by Brown University intelligentsia, to remove the name "Plantations" because it is offensive to minorities. I would love to hear thoughts on this one.

[bobbldr]

"However, currently the implied common meaning and the use of the metaphor is strictly for the church staying out of the state's business. The opposite meaning essentially cannot in be found in the media, the judiciary, or in public debate..."

The right is constantly harping on their right to post the Ten Commandments, prayer in schools. The Bible says homosexuality is wrong so we must not allow gay marriges.
They're debating it in the media everyday.
All this and tax-exempt status too. Ungrateful creepy-creeps.
ps. another self-loathing, anti-gay legislation, Gay Republican has made the news here in Sacramento.
Why would anybody listen to these creeps. They're as common as gay pediphiles in the Catholic Church...speaking of seperation.

[bobbldr]

"However, currently the implied common meaning and the use of the metaphor is strictly for the church staying out of the state's business. The opposite meaning essentially cannot in be found in the media, the judiciary, or in public debate..."

The right is constantly harping on their right to post the Ten Commandments, prayer in schools. The Bible says homosexuality is wrong so we must not allow gay marriges.
They're debating it in the media everyday.
All this and tax-exempt status too. Ungrateful creepy-creeps.
ps. another self-loathing, anti-gay legislation, Gay Republican has made the news here in Sacramento.
Why would anybody listen to these creeps. They're as common as gay pediphiles in the Catholic Church...speaking of seperation.

The government should stay out of religion, and yes, religion should stay out of government. Period. The gay California senator, Ashburn, is a hypocrite, a liar, a terrible excuse for a human being, let alone a Senator. The current furor over him has nothing to do with religion nor his political affiliation.

[bobbldr]

Jefferson meant the wall to keep BOTH government out of religion, AND more importantly, religion out of government. If you read Jefferson's writings, all or most of them, this is readily apparent. He realized the problem of mixing the two. Since this country has so many denominations just of the Christian faith alone, not to mention Jewish and yes Muslim sects, which one takes precedent? We are NOT a Christian Nation. Christianity is the predominate religion, yes. But we are a SECULAR nation. A nation of laws. The Constitution mentions religion only twice. Both times in a restrictive sense. If the Founders really wanted this to be a "Christian Nation", they would've said so. The Founders didn't beat around the bush about anything else. Why wouldn't they just say "this is a Christian nation", if that's what they intended? the Founders also talked about it in all of their personal papers, and letters. If you read them, its pretty clear they DIDN'T want any one religion in charge. This whole argument rests on "interperting" what the Founders meant. That's silly. They laid it out in the Constitution. Its actually pretty easy to understand. I've read my copy many times. There's no interperting going on at all. We are a secular nation. A nation of laws.

What are our laws derived from?

[Peebs]

Our laws are derived from the minds of the Founders, and every legislator who has served since the first Congressional Congress. And a good deal was borrowed from English Common Law.

[bobbldr]

"Our laws are derived from the minds of the Founders, and every legislator who has served since the first Congressional Congress. And a good deal was borrowed from English Common Law."

And English common law was derived from what?

[Rev. Greg]

99.99% of the folks around when this country was founded were protestant
of some sort. Nearly no Catholics, Jews, Or Muslims if any at all.
They wouldn't have even thought of them as being an issue in the future.
At that time nearly everyone including the founders went to a church
regularly and often several churches for networking, business, financial and political connections.
After all they couldn't forsee EVERYTHING! Something had to slip by them.
I doubt they ever would have thought and would have been horrified
that we would end up with 1/4 to 1/3 of the population would wind up being Catholic
and that Islam would wind up being as it is now.

[getouttadenver]

well no, not really:
http://skeptically.org/thinkersonreligion/id9.html

The Treaty of Tripoli, passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797, read in part: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." The treaty was written during the Washington administration, and sent to the Senate during the Adams administration. It was read aloud to the Senate, and each Senator received a printed copy. This was the 339th time that a recorded vote was required by the Senate, but only the third time a vote was unanimous (the next time was to honor George Washington). There is no record of any debate or dissension on the treaty. It was reprinted in full in three newspapers - two in Philadelphia, one in New York City. There is no record of public outcry or complaint in subsequent editions of the papers.

[bobbldr]

well no, not really:
http://skeptically.org/thinkersonreligion/id9.html

The Treaty of Tripoli, passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797, read in part: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." The treaty was written during the Washington administration, and sent to the Senate during the Adams administration. It was read aloud to the Senate, and each Senator received a printed copy. This was the 339th time that a recorded vote was required by the Senate, but only the third time a vote was unanimous (the next time was to honor George Washington). There is no record of any debate or dissension on the treaty. It was reprinted in full in three newspapers - two in Philadelphia, one in New York City. There is no record of public outcry or complaint in subsequent editions of the papers.

“As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”

Although ratified by the Senate and signed by the president, the complete text of the Treaty of Tripoli was never read on the Senate floor. Joel Barlow was the U.S. consul-general to the Barbary States. This sentence, added by a zealous consul-general from an Arabic translation was NOT intended to disclaim the founding of our country on Christian principles. Moreover, the treaty expired in 1800 and no longer exists.In 1931 a commission by the U.S. to analyze its treaties found that the Barlow translation of the Treaty of Tripoli was “a poor attempt to paraphrase or summarize the wishes of Arabic nations… in an attempt to win peaceful sea-bearing trade routes.” The commission goes on to say: “Article 11 is in form a letter, crude and flamboyant and withal quite unimportant text that was never considered by the U.S. Senate. It is a mystery as to the exact reason Barlow included it, but one can only assume it was to win peace at any price.”

[Joey]

"The government should stay out of religion, and yes, religion should stay out of government. Period. The gay California senator, Ashburn, is a hypocrite, a liar, a terrible excuse for a human being, let alone a Senator. The current furor over him has nothing to do with religion nor his political affiliation."

It's the Republicans who are attacking the freedom of gay people - and therefore my freedom - in the U.S.

ps. Y'all are kickin' ass on the research. Or did you just know this stuff? Either way, I'm stoked to be getting my college education at long last!!

[Mr. Dilligaf]

"And English common law was derived from what?

Since Joey is workin' on his college degree;

English Common law has roots that can be taced all the back to the Magna Carta some time around the end of the 13th century, I believe.

[bobbldr]

"And English common law was derived from what?

Since Joey is workin' on his college degree;

English Common law has roots that can be taced all the back to the Magna Carta some time around the end of the 13th century, I believe.

THat's right. Now, where were the Magna Carta's laws derived from? Keep going back... you'll get there...

[bobbldr]

"The government should stay out of religion, and yes, religion should stay out of government. Period. The gay California senator, Ashburn, is a hypocrite, a liar, a terrible excuse for a human being, let alone a Senator. The current furor over him has nothing to do with religion nor his political affiliation."

It's the Republicans who are attacking the freedom of gay people - and therefore my freedom - in the U.S.

ps. Y'all are kickin' ass on the research. Or did you just know this stuff? Either way, I'm stoked to be getting my college education at long last!!

Joey, you have your degree from the College of Musical Knowledge- great credentials in my book.

If you look really hard, I'll bet you can find some Democrat types and, yes, even Independants (myself not included) who don't believe in equal rights for gay folks, you cannot blame just the Republicans.

[Peebs]

Why don't you want equal rights for Gays? Its not like you'll lose rights if we make sure Gay people are assured of theirs. It's not a zero sum situation.

And I see where you think you're going with your "where does Common Law come from" questions. And I can tell you it doesn't go back to "God". Yours or anybody's. The Magna Carta, Which was forced onto the King by his Barons, was signed in 1215 ad. It was the first time a king was to have his powers limited by the people he ruled. It forced the king, who up until that time had power over life and death (granted to him by "God"), to recognize some basic human rights. English Common law was eventually to come from the Magna Carta. And our system borrows heavily from English Common Law. So no, our system doesn't come from "God". Yours, or anybody else'.

[Joey]

Bob unincluded himself, (not correct because he never INcluded himself, I just thought it sounded funny) Jef, and it's true...even our super-suave and funky new president, (a Democrat I believe) would only go so far as "civil unions".
But he aint callin' for public hangings while takin' it deep like them super-tough Republican closet screamin' flamers.